I have recently read The Stranger by Albert Camus, and in fact have even done an oral presentation about it for AP English. To aid in the presentation, I rummaged through my notes from last year's philosophy class to find everything I could about Existentialism. Most of you reading this are probably very aware of the main tenants of the worldview, so I won't really go into detail.
Up until tonight, I have never fully experienced the "absurdity of life" that so permeates the existential view. I now know what the absurdity of life is. The absurdity of life is the fact that everyday you wake up, you go to work or school, and you go to sleep. The absurdity of life is the fact that, at least for me personally, I strive to create meaningful relationships with other people, specifically members of the opposing gender, but cannot find them. They fail -- almost all the time. Absurdity in life is standing on the sidewalk in front of your house while one of your best friends walks down the hill out of view with a plastic bag of clothes as he runs away from an overbearingly sadistic home. The absurdity of life, for me at least today, is a depressingly sharp reality.
Why go on? Seriously, why should I go on? That is the question posed by Existentialism. The only reason I can see to go on is that life was created to be absurd. We are born, we live, we die. We follow the same daily routine for ninety percent of our lives. We get turned down again and again when seeking a relationship. The most absurd things happen to us and our few friends throughout the course of the grind of life. Why does all this happen?
This happens because our focus is not meant to be on this absurd life. Why are we born, we live a short life, and then we die? Because we are meant to be motivated by this fact into searching for some other life. Why do our, especially my, relationships fail? Because we are meant to search for some higher relationship. To be quite honest, that knowledge is the only thing that is keeping me going.
Perhaps Plato's World of Ideas aptly fits this situation. Everything in this life is just a shadow of something else in some other plain of existence.
I now realize, to a very large degree, that Plato is more of a genius than I ever imagined, and that Existentialism hits the nail on the head much more squarely than I thought. The only road that I take that both of the aforementioned schools do not is that I believe in God. God is the only thing keeping me going right now. This life is absurd. Things in this life are just a shadow of some other plain of existence -- but I know that plain of existence is paradise. The one who made life absurd is God -- He did it so that we would search for Him. Why would a happy, content man ever want to seek God? All it would do is add suffering and responsibility to his life. We must be made not content, so that eventually we can become happier than we could ever imagine. I've seen that more clearly this weekend than ever before in my life, and I'm hoping and praying that I indeed can get back on track and be content in God.
~Tribal
Saturday, December 16, 2006
But...I AM right
"You think you're right and everybody else is wrong. You're so arrogant." -- these are the words that are spoken to me on an almost daily basis by a good classmate of mine. We often end up in lunch table discussions over political or philosophical issues (rarely started by me, might I add). It seems like the two of us have entirely different views on absolutely everything ranging from belief in God, to whether or not the school's hotdogs really are made out of green fungus. It also seems, however, that everytime I try to defend my views against his, the above quote gets thrown at me out of anger, often accompanied by some mild profanity or obscene gesture.
So, I think that I'm right and that everybody else is wrong? Well, quite frankly, "duh." I mean, if one did not believe that one's opinions were correct on an issue, why hold any opinion at all on an issue? My response to my friend's often angry semi-relativism often runs something along the lines of, "Well, you think that you're right too and that I'm wrong, otherwise we would not be here discussing this." It is true. If a person did not believe himself to be correct, why would he have a firm opinion on anything?
There are some things that I know to be absolutely, one-hundred percent correct. For instance, I know that there is a God who created the world and created me, and has an ultimate plan for my life. I also know, though, that I have free will -- I have the ability to chose between right and wrong, following God's path or not following. I know that abortion destroys an innocent life, and is very comparable to the Jewish Holocaust. In addition to this, I also know that homosexuality is wrong -- it is not an "alternate lifestyle" and it is not how people are born. I know many more things that are absolutely correct as well, but this is just a small sampling of them.
So what's the point of all this? I think that the world is trying to tear down our beliefs and our moral foundations by throwing out labels like "arrogant" or "intolerant." They try to make us feel bad. If you say that it is wrong for gay people to be involved in a homosexual relationship, you are labeled a "hatemonger" -- "hate is NOT a family value" as one bumper sticker reads. In response to this, Christians tend to back away from such "controversial" issues because they want to be loved by everybody. Might I remind you that God's word tells us we will be hated for His namesake. It's not being "arrogant," it's merely recognizing the sin that is present in the world.
I do not exempt myself from any of this, however. I admit, at times I can come across as very overbearing. It is something I am trying to work on. However, we should not back away from what we know is right and wrong merely because some other human tells us he or she is offended at what we are saying. GOD says that homosexuality is wrong, not me -- I didn't make that rule, go read the Bible. If people are offended by the very things that God Himself says, why should we in any way attempt to appease their "hurt feelings" -- who are we to go out and apologize to them?
The band Demon Hunter has an amazing song off of their album The Triptych about this very subject. The title is "Relentless Intolerance." The name pretty much says it all. The song calls for Christians to stand firm for the things they believe in and not give in when "the foundations that we used to uphold" are "regarded as the madness of old." Right is still right and wrong is still wrong. Who are we to change that?
~Tribal
So, I think that I'm right and that everybody else is wrong? Well, quite frankly, "duh." I mean, if one did not believe that one's opinions were correct on an issue, why hold any opinion at all on an issue? My response to my friend's often angry semi-relativism often runs something along the lines of, "Well, you think that you're right too and that I'm wrong, otherwise we would not be here discussing this." It is true. If a person did not believe himself to be correct, why would he have a firm opinion on anything?
There are some things that I know to be absolutely, one-hundred percent correct. For instance, I know that there is a God who created the world and created me, and has an ultimate plan for my life. I also know, though, that I have free will -- I have the ability to chose between right and wrong, following God's path or not following. I know that abortion destroys an innocent life, and is very comparable to the Jewish Holocaust. In addition to this, I also know that homosexuality is wrong -- it is not an "alternate lifestyle" and it is not how people are born. I know many more things that are absolutely correct as well, but this is just a small sampling of them.
So what's the point of all this? I think that the world is trying to tear down our beliefs and our moral foundations by throwing out labels like "arrogant" or "intolerant." They try to make us feel bad. If you say that it is wrong for gay people to be involved in a homosexual relationship, you are labeled a "hatemonger" -- "hate is NOT a family value" as one bumper sticker reads. In response to this, Christians tend to back away from such "controversial" issues because they want to be loved by everybody. Might I remind you that God's word tells us we will be hated for His namesake. It's not being "arrogant," it's merely recognizing the sin that is present in the world.
I do not exempt myself from any of this, however. I admit, at times I can come across as very overbearing. It is something I am trying to work on. However, we should not back away from what we know is right and wrong merely because some other human tells us he or she is offended at what we are saying. GOD says that homosexuality is wrong, not me -- I didn't make that rule, go read the Bible. If people are offended by the very things that God Himself says, why should we in any way attempt to appease their "hurt feelings" -- who are we to go out and apologize to them?
The band Demon Hunter has an amazing song off of their album The Triptych about this very subject. The title is "Relentless Intolerance." The name pretty much says it all. The song calls for Christians to stand firm for the things they believe in and not give in when "the foundations that we used to uphold" are "regarded as the madness of old." Right is still right and wrong is still wrong. Who are we to change that?
~Tribal
Sunday, December 03, 2006
The Moron Files
Once there was a conservative (me) who got into an argument with a bunch of very liberal people who joined my facebook group "Non-racist Americans FOR racial profiling of Arabs" for no other reason than to harrass me. This is the bulk of that little back-and-forth. I post it here in it's entirety -- exactly the words that were said with the exception of editing out the obscenities. This is definentaly worth a read, as it illustrates the lunacy that has taken hold of some in America...an excellent example of liberal fallacy.
Pouria Almassi: oh yes, of course, this makes perfect sense, screen all the Arabs, because Arabs are always the ones who commit acts of terrorism, Oklahoma city? Thed Kaczynskiwait aka the "Unabomber" , wait a second, those were Americans!
Daniel Marchant (me): Absolutely correct, those were Americans! However, those were 2 isolated incidents. The attacks on September 11, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, and the numerous thwarted attempts by other Muslim Arab terrorists (shoe bomber, liquid bombs) were committed, as I said, by Muslim Arabs. Oh, that's not to mention all the groups fighting us in the Middle East in Iraq and Afghanistan. Oh, and even that's not to mention all the extremist Islamic groups that hate us and want to see us dead...
Shawn Singh Tucker: racial profiling arabs will make the situation even worse. so many people already hate muslims because of us media, and making it ok to profile gives people more of an excuse and an incentive to commit hate crimes. also, muslims come in so different races-black, white, brown, yellow,red purple everything u can think of, so to racially profile people who "look" muslim makes no sense. to a majority of americans even i look muslim, even though i am not. we need to unite and be together rather than profile and segregate. last thing-if you support racial profiling, you ARE RACIST whether u realize it or not. sorry
and daniel...i think white people kill more people in the US than arabs do, don't you? why doesnt the police racially profile you on the streets if it's just?
Daniel Marchant: We're still dancing around the issue here. Sure, more murders probably result from white people than they do from Arabs, but that is not taking into account the fact that there are more white people in America than Arabs. However, the number of murders and attempted murders commited on airplanes by Muslim Arabs far outweighs the number that have been committed by white people. Turn on the TV lately and hear about the latest KKK airplane rampage? No. Turn on the TV lately and hear about another threat by Muslim extremists? Yes. The issue is merely that you do not hear about five year old kids hijacking jetliners, and you don't hear about 90 year old grandmas flying planes into buildings, so why waste time and resources screening such people? It is absolutely rediculous to overlook the fact that the one thing that connects every major terrorist threat against our country is religion and ethnicity.
...as far as being racist? If there comes a day when white male Christians start blowing up airliners and flying them into buildings, I would hope that I would be stopped at an airport and examined with extra security measures...
AB Omar: "religion and ethnicity" so now it's not just muslims, but also ethnicity meaning. . . . . all arab looking people? Daniel, since you're so blindly ignorant, let's go with your line of reasoning and see if you can justify the means. when you see on fox news that 'a muslim bombed .....' do you ever stop to ask yourself, i wonder what made him/her strap on a bomb and die? just for kicks? don't think so. so there had to be a catalyst? . . . . . ok you know what, i'll make it simple for you since you seem to be too logically challenged to follow any thoughtful argument:say someone, a complete stranger, came into your house and took everything you had and insulted your very existence upon robbing you and then slapped your little sister around for no reason, would you sit there with your hands and head stuck up your fat racist a** or would you actually try to resist? all this fighting and 'bombing' and blood shed is a resistnce mechanism. people are resisting being occupied.
all they want is what was theirs back. all they want is a normal life that was taken away from them. and then stupid, unaware and ignorant people like YOU are made to believe that phalestinians and muslims are the problem. SINCE WHEN DID THE OPPRESSOR BECOME THE VICTIM????
Daniel Marchant: I actually have stopped and asked myself why these people do what they do, and interestingly enough, the conflict runs far deeper than you think it does. Do you honestly believe that they strap bombs to themselves and blow up innocent men, women, and children because they are being "occupied?" If by occupation you mean a free, Democratic Iraq replacing a murderous, dictatorship, then of course they are being "occupied." But these extremists hate us because they believe GOD tells them to hate us. Why would you try making up your own little excuse and defense for their actions when they themselves are very forthright about it? "Great Satan," "Little Satan," "Infidel" -- ring any bells? They attack us because they believe their religion tells them to attack us, and that they will be rewarded in the afterlife for it. Bush propoganda? -- no, the truth -- listen to any terrorist speak about why he does what he does.
Jessica Warner: So this "normal life" you're referring to....Your're criticizing Americans, claiming that we CAUSED the terrorism on our nation by going into other nations.Might I point out that we went into their nations in order to help them dispose of a tyrannical dictator who was killing, torturing, and mutilating their people?And, by the way, if you disagree with the group, DON'T JOIN IT! Joining a group for the sole purpose of dissing it is childish at best and (since you brought up this word) ignorant in all actuality. So either leave the blasted group or stop insulting those who are willing to diplomatically and legitimately stand up for their views.
AB Omar: Jessica, let me remind you because you seem to have conveniently forgotten the facts, WE the United States of America MADE Osama who he is now. US made Saddam Hussein who he turned into. So before you point the blame finger, stop and recount the facts. That's the least you can do. And Daniel, you speak of "Democracy". If you knew anything about history, you'd realize that the same form of government does NOT work all over the world. We tried it in Vietnam. Secondly, what's the difference between Saddam's regime and FORCING democracy on Iraq? They share a common denominator. They're both forced and unwanted. Let the people of Iraq decide what kind of government they want instead of shoving your politics down their throat. For both of you, if you honestly believe that the US's presence in the middle east is solely to 'liberate an oppressed people', look at the projected map of the gas pipleline and the current position of US troops in the middle east. too good to be true?
Daniel Marchant: Vietnam? Please...Democracy failed in Vietnam because the NORTH VIETNAMESE wanted it to fail, and the United States did not have the stomach for a fight. They "cut and run" as the saying goes, and left a fledgling government to fend off a much more powerful Communist force. Democracy will work in Iraq as well as long as we do not cut and run and leave them to face the terrorists alone just yet. It worked fine in Israel. In addition, what about all the elections Iraq has had since the removal of Saddam? Have you seen their voter turn out? It puts the United States to shame, so it looks like they love their democracy over there even more than some Americans do over here. Maybe I'm not the one who must examine the facts.
Hmm, U.S. troop deployments around gas pipelines in Iraq...go figure. I seem to remember that in the Gulf War, Saddam tried to burn the oil fields...American troops are there to guard the pipelines against such another action by the terrorists. Oil is the biggest player in the Iraqi economy -- if the oil and gas burns, so does Iraq's economy and democracy. Drive a car? Buy any gas lately? Realize that gas prices are higher than they were before the war? If we went into Iraq for oil and if we really wanted to take their oil, why is there still a shortage and why are we still paying insane amounts?
AB Omar: hahahaha. Daniel, please tell me you didn't just make those arguments? especially the one about oil? Please tell me you aren't THAT dumb?
Daniel Marchant: Well I'm glad no one here has resorted to the elementary school "I've run out of things to say therefore I am only going to hurl insults" -- I was worried there for a second that I was actually debating against somebody with nothing factual to say...
Jessica Warner: Okay, may I suggest that the fact that you are no longer reporting FACTS (as Dan happens to be.....) probably means that you're out of legitimate arguments? Sorry, AB, I think you're done on this one. Better luck next time!
AB Omar: try this one for facts
http://www.rense.com/general70/deathmde.htm
by the way Daniel and Jessica, i would like to see some of your FACTS? something credible. meaning FOX News doesn't count. i'm honestly interested in finding out what your source of information is.
here is an independent research for you. see for yourself. http://www.umrc.net/pdf/quantitative_analysis_afghanistan.pdfgoogle the paper if the full text doesn't pop up. that is you're interested in FACTS.
Shawn Singh Tucker: seriously...this group is just here to make people mad. why are people terrorists in the 1st place? bc they are upset abt something. by creating this group ur not helping anybody, just making things worse.seriously, think abt things before u do them. and if u think ur right in this group, express your views face to face to a muslim, arab, even another minority and then ull get a real responsealso, this group means jack s***. just cuz u made a group that has 20 members--half of which are here to help you realize how ignorant u are--doesnt mean that ur stupidity will become a reality. racial profiling goes against everything this country was founded for. i bet yall dont even give a d****cuz u think im an arab or a muslim. sayin that "oh i believe they are equal, but they should be searched" is b*******. dont force people to be treated as second rate citizens and separated and then say, "yea, they are equal." f***** nazis. im outta this lame a** group
Sunny Mummaneni: i joined this group not to criticize it in any way but to inform a few uninformed people, i am not a muslim but to say that Islam is telling these people to act out these horrible terroristic acts is completely ludacris, if you would just take a couple of weeks and read the Koran you would learn that Islam is probably one of the most peaceful religions in its true PURE form, these people that yell out Jihad and enact these terrible deeds are misinterpreting the religion completely and in all reality thats not their fault, a lot of them aren't educated enough to comprehend or they were forced to believe that is the true Islam since the day they can comprehend anything. We as Americans shouldn't put these people down, moreover we should embrace them and if we really wanted to help then help them learn the true meaning of their own religion, not convert them to the majorities belief. We as American are very lucky to have a good education system (no matter how awful some people think...
... it is) we are definately luckier than they are over there and for that we should be thankful and not full of hate for another religon, what ever happened to freedom of religion? seriously people i can't walk down the street without someone talking about "those damned muslims", alright there is a few groups of misinformed extremists, but in reality every religion has those groups of people. Hinduism is supposed to be peaceful but in India there are mosques getting burned down by Hindu extremist, during slavery Christians used to hold slaves and beat them (sometimes to death) in the name of their god, all these people were misinformed, and there are still some that are...now we shouldn't be arguing here or hating on all muslim arabs but we should be trying to figure out a DIPLOMATIC way to help these people because they are suffering from the worst disease that man knows of and thats HATE because of IGNORANCE..don't join them by saying arabs should be the only ones looked out for..
Daniel Marchant: Hmm, try this one for facts? Ironic that a few babies are born horribly deformed, and the blame automaticaly falls on the United States. Of course the small amount of uranium that is contained within these weapons so horribly used by U.S. troops would be enough to deform entire bodies such as those shown in the pictures *sarcasm*. As far as your other source, I think you conviently overlooked the last sentance of the paper..."The cause of our findings is currently being evaluated as part of our ongoing research." Sounds awfully conclusive to me.
...and actually, umm, if FOX News is the only one who reported the attacks of September 11, the bombings of the U.S.S. Cole, as well as the endless wave of terrorist violence committed by extremists in the Middle East, then sure FOX News is my source...but it's kind of shocking to me that you actually NEED to see some sort of proof for all of this. Have you been living completely out of touch with the world for the past, oh, 30 years? I don't care if you think this group is "jack s***" or not, I honestly do not care what anyone thinks about my group or my opinions. It's called having a backbone and not giving a crap what other people think of you. If all you are going to do is criticize the group, why join?
Sunny, I agree completely with your view on Islam. It is a peaceful religion, and Muslims are generaly peace loving people. However, those who have commited and want to commit terrorist attacks against the United States are very bold in their wrongful proclomation that God wants them to do this. Don't believe me? Turn on any TV channel or read any newspaper the next time a terrorist releases a propoganda tape. They are doing it in the name of their religion, even though their religion does not teach that. I do not hate muslims, I do not hate Arabs, but I do hate acts of terrorism committed in the name of God. Those are the people I do not like. Oh, and P.S., yes, since Christians are still beating slaves to death I think we should change this group's name to "Non-racist Americans FOR racial profiling of Arabs and Christians."
AB Omar: Sunny, i appreciate your point of view. however, i think you have been misinformed. you said that 'muslims are suffering from the worst disease ...." i don't think you're seeing the whole picture. if you look at one of my earlier posts, i posed the following scenario to Daniel and got no response. so here it is again:say a complete stranger came into your house, uninvited, and took everything you had. he/she insulted your very existence upon robbing you IN YOUR OWN HOUSE and slapped around your little sister for no reason, would you sit there and watch them absue everything you have and you are or would you at least try to resist? for one minute, let's forget about our biases as westerners and look at it from a humanistic point of view. Look at the progression of the map of Israel from 1946 to now. What was almost entirely Palestine once has now been reduced to little dots on the map. and none of this land was voluntarily given to Israel by the Palestinian people.
Israel has taken the palestinians homes away from them. when everything one has has been stolen from him/her, he/she has nothing more to lose, so death by means of straping ona bomb is a natural progression in order to retaliate. so you see, while killing other people can never be justified no matter what the reason, scrutinizing the facts can help better explain these actions.
Daniel Marchant: Interestingly enough I've directly responded to your post all along, apparently you just never were able to figure it out. If you think that is the reason why the extremists are doing what they are doing, then you really are out of touch with reality. The extremists themselves do not say "well I'm doing this because people came into my land" they say "Allah be praised, kill the infidel, kill the great satan." Excluding Western bias as you said, that land does rightfully belong to Israel. The Kingdom of Israel once ruled an area of land much larger than what is there for them now...look on any ancient history maps.
AB Omar: Daniel, how many ways do I need to say it so it'll ring a bell in that empty head of yours. Read my post again about your sources of information. The government IS the media. So they give you what's on their agenda, not what's actually happening. Think about this, all the reporters that went to Iraq to cover the war, they stayed with US military, they wore US military apparel, they ate with US troops, they were protected by the US troops and they were transported in US humvies and they reported mostly from US bases. Have you heard ANYTHING from a reporter that stayed with the Iraqi troops, ate with Iraqi troops, was transporterd around by Iraqi military, and reported from Iraqi bases? didn't think so. come back when you have something worthwile to say.
Jessica Warner: C'mon, Dan.....Every time a civilized person is wronged, the immediate, natural reaction is to blow oneself up. Everyone knows this, Dan.What's your problem?
AB Omar: oh and your reply to Sunny's comment, saying that you don't hate arabs or muslims..... if that's so then why did you create this group? i mean look at the first sentence in the intro to this group, "This group is for every American who supports racial profiling against Muslim Arabs. "you really have no clue what you're talking about do you?
Daniel Marchant: LOL, this is really rather comical. Obviously the Republican controlled government (soley controlled by Bush of course, that ultra evil conservative) is secretly behind the incredibly liberal news media controlled almost exclusively by very vocal Democrats. How can you not acknowledge that? Turn on any news channel and you hear "Bush is a failure, Bush got us into a quagmire, impeach Bush." Yeah, government propoganda...o-kay. I like how news reporters being protected by troops and staying with troops is conclusive proof of your position lol. Of course, if the troops would not have protected them, you'd be outraged over that and condemn the military for not regarding innocent life. I can't believe you are still here arguing. Everything that you are saying is making you look worse and worse in the eyes of the intelligent people of this group.
Umm, Omar, look at the very FIRST part of the TITLE of this group...
I will continue to post this all as it unfolds further.
~Tribal~
Pouria Almassi: oh yes, of course, this makes perfect sense, screen all the Arabs, because Arabs are always the ones who commit acts of terrorism, Oklahoma city? Thed Kaczynskiwait aka the "Unabomber" , wait a second, those were Americans!
Daniel Marchant (me): Absolutely correct, those were Americans! However, those were 2 isolated incidents. The attacks on September 11, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, and the numerous thwarted attempts by other Muslim Arab terrorists (shoe bomber, liquid bombs) were committed, as I said, by Muslim Arabs. Oh, that's not to mention all the groups fighting us in the Middle East in Iraq and Afghanistan. Oh, and even that's not to mention all the extremist Islamic groups that hate us and want to see us dead...
Shawn Singh Tucker: racial profiling arabs will make the situation even worse. so many people already hate muslims because of us media, and making it ok to profile gives people more of an excuse and an incentive to commit hate crimes. also, muslims come in so different races-black, white, brown, yellow,red purple everything u can think of, so to racially profile people who "look" muslim makes no sense. to a majority of americans even i look muslim, even though i am not. we need to unite and be together rather than profile and segregate. last thing-if you support racial profiling, you ARE RACIST whether u realize it or not. sorry
and daniel...i think white people kill more people in the US than arabs do, don't you? why doesnt the police racially profile you on the streets if it's just?
Daniel Marchant: We're still dancing around the issue here. Sure, more murders probably result from white people than they do from Arabs, but that is not taking into account the fact that there are more white people in America than Arabs. However, the number of murders and attempted murders commited on airplanes by Muslim Arabs far outweighs the number that have been committed by white people. Turn on the TV lately and hear about the latest KKK airplane rampage? No. Turn on the TV lately and hear about another threat by Muslim extremists? Yes. The issue is merely that you do not hear about five year old kids hijacking jetliners, and you don't hear about 90 year old grandmas flying planes into buildings, so why waste time and resources screening such people? It is absolutely rediculous to overlook the fact that the one thing that connects every major terrorist threat against our country is religion and ethnicity.
...as far as being racist? If there comes a day when white male Christians start blowing up airliners and flying them into buildings, I would hope that I would be stopped at an airport and examined with extra security measures...
AB Omar: "religion and ethnicity" so now it's not just muslims, but also ethnicity meaning. . . . . all arab looking people? Daniel, since you're so blindly ignorant, let's go with your line of reasoning and see if you can justify the means. when you see on fox news that 'a muslim bombed .....' do you ever stop to ask yourself, i wonder what made him/her strap on a bomb and die? just for kicks? don't think so. so there had to be a catalyst? . . . . . ok you know what, i'll make it simple for you since you seem to be too logically challenged to follow any thoughtful argument:say someone, a complete stranger, came into your house and took everything you had and insulted your very existence upon robbing you and then slapped your little sister around for no reason, would you sit there with your hands and head stuck up your fat racist a** or would you actually try to resist? all this fighting and 'bombing' and blood shed is a resistnce mechanism. people are resisting being occupied.
all they want is what was theirs back. all they want is a normal life that was taken away from them. and then stupid, unaware and ignorant people like YOU are made to believe that phalestinians and muslims are the problem. SINCE WHEN DID THE OPPRESSOR BECOME THE VICTIM????
Daniel Marchant: I actually have stopped and asked myself why these people do what they do, and interestingly enough, the conflict runs far deeper than you think it does. Do you honestly believe that they strap bombs to themselves and blow up innocent men, women, and children because they are being "occupied?" If by occupation you mean a free, Democratic Iraq replacing a murderous, dictatorship, then of course they are being "occupied." But these extremists hate us because they believe GOD tells them to hate us. Why would you try making up your own little excuse and defense for their actions when they themselves are very forthright about it? "Great Satan," "Little Satan," "Infidel" -- ring any bells? They attack us because they believe their religion tells them to attack us, and that they will be rewarded in the afterlife for it. Bush propoganda? -- no, the truth -- listen to any terrorist speak about why he does what he does.
Jessica Warner: So this "normal life" you're referring to....Your're criticizing Americans, claiming that we CAUSED the terrorism on our nation by going into other nations.Might I point out that we went into their nations in order to help them dispose of a tyrannical dictator who was killing, torturing, and mutilating their people?And, by the way, if you disagree with the group, DON'T JOIN IT! Joining a group for the sole purpose of dissing it is childish at best and (since you brought up this word) ignorant in all actuality. So either leave the blasted group or stop insulting those who are willing to diplomatically and legitimately stand up for their views.
AB Omar: Jessica, let me remind you because you seem to have conveniently forgotten the facts, WE the United States of America MADE Osama who he is now. US made Saddam Hussein who he turned into. So before you point the blame finger, stop and recount the facts. That's the least you can do. And Daniel, you speak of "Democracy". If you knew anything about history, you'd realize that the same form of government does NOT work all over the world. We tried it in Vietnam. Secondly, what's the difference between Saddam's regime and FORCING democracy on Iraq? They share a common denominator. They're both forced and unwanted. Let the people of Iraq decide what kind of government they want instead of shoving your politics down their throat. For both of you, if you honestly believe that the US's presence in the middle east is solely to 'liberate an oppressed people', look at the projected map of the gas pipleline and the current position of US troops in the middle east. too good to be true?
Daniel Marchant: Vietnam? Please...Democracy failed in Vietnam because the NORTH VIETNAMESE wanted it to fail, and the United States did not have the stomach for a fight. They "cut and run" as the saying goes, and left a fledgling government to fend off a much more powerful Communist force. Democracy will work in Iraq as well as long as we do not cut and run and leave them to face the terrorists alone just yet. It worked fine in Israel. In addition, what about all the elections Iraq has had since the removal of Saddam? Have you seen their voter turn out? It puts the United States to shame, so it looks like they love their democracy over there even more than some Americans do over here. Maybe I'm not the one who must examine the facts.
Hmm, U.S. troop deployments around gas pipelines in Iraq...go figure. I seem to remember that in the Gulf War, Saddam tried to burn the oil fields...American troops are there to guard the pipelines against such another action by the terrorists. Oil is the biggest player in the Iraqi economy -- if the oil and gas burns, so does Iraq's economy and democracy. Drive a car? Buy any gas lately? Realize that gas prices are higher than they were before the war? If we went into Iraq for oil and if we really wanted to take their oil, why is there still a shortage and why are we still paying insane amounts?
AB Omar: hahahaha. Daniel, please tell me you didn't just make those arguments? especially the one about oil? Please tell me you aren't THAT dumb?
Daniel Marchant: Well I'm glad no one here has resorted to the elementary school "I've run out of things to say therefore I am only going to hurl insults" -- I was worried there for a second that I was actually debating against somebody with nothing factual to say...
Jessica Warner: Okay, may I suggest that the fact that you are no longer reporting FACTS (as Dan happens to be.....) probably means that you're out of legitimate arguments? Sorry, AB, I think you're done on this one. Better luck next time!
AB Omar: try this one for facts
http://www.rense.com/general70/deathmde.htm
by the way Daniel and Jessica, i would like to see some of your FACTS? something credible. meaning FOX News doesn't count. i'm honestly interested in finding out what your source of information is.
here is an independent research for you. see for yourself. http://www.umrc.net/pdf/quantitative_analysis_afghanistan.pdfgoogle the paper if the full text doesn't pop up. that is you're interested in FACTS.
Shawn Singh Tucker: seriously...this group is just here to make people mad. why are people terrorists in the 1st place? bc they are upset abt something. by creating this group ur not helping anybody, just making things worse.seriously, think abt things before u do them. and if u think ur right in this group, express your views face to face to a muslim, arab, even another minority and then ull get a real responsealso, this group means jack s***. just cuz u made a group that has 20 members--half of which are here to help you realize how ignorant u are--doesnt mean that ur stupidity will become a reality. racial profiling goes against everything this country was founded for. i bet yall dont even give a d****cuz u think im an arab or a muslim. sayin that "oh i believe they are equal, but they should be searched" is b*******. dont force people to be treated as second rate citizens and separated and then say, "yea, they are equal." f***** nazis. im outta this lame a** group
Sunny Mummaneni: i joined this group not to criticize it in any way but to inform a few uninformed people, i am not a muslim but to say that Islam is telling these people to act out these horrible terroristic acts is completely ludacris, if you would just take a couple of weeks and read the Koran you would learn that Islam is probably one of the most peaceful religions in its true PURE form, these people that yell out Jihad and enact these terrible deeds are misinterpreting the religion completely and in all reality thats not their fault, a lot of them aren't educated enough to comprehend or they were forced to believe that is the true Islam since the day they can comprehend anything. We as Americans shouldn't put these people down, moreover we should embrace them and if we really wanted to help then help them learn the true meaning of their own religion, not convert them to the majorities belief. We as American are very lucky to have a good education system (no matter how awful some people think...
... it is) we are definately luckier than they are over there and for that we should be thankful and not full of hate for another religon, what ever happened to freedom of religion? seriously people i can't walk down the street without someone talking about "those damned muslims", alright there is a few groups of misinformed extremists, but in reality every religion has those groups of people. Hinduism is supposed to be peaceful but in India there are mosques getting burned down by Hindu extremist, during slavery Christians used to hold slaves and beat them (sometimes to death) in the name of their god, all these people were misinformed, and there are still some that are...now we shouldn't be arguing here or hating on all muslim arabs but we should be trying to figure out a DIPLOMATIC way to help these people because they are suffering from the worst disease that man knows of and thats HATE because of IGNORANCE..don't join them by saying arabs should be the only ones looked out for..
Daniel Marchant: Hmm, try this one for facts? Ironic that a few babies are born horribly deformed, and the blame automaticaly falls on the United States. Of course the small amount of uranium that is contained within these weapons so horribly used by U.S. troops would be enough to deform entire bodies such as those shown in the pictures *sarcasm*. As far as your other source, I think you conviently overlooked the last sentance of the paper..."The cause of our findings is currently being evaluated as part of our ongoing research." Sounds awfully conclusive to me.
...and actually, umm, if FOX News is the only one who reported the attacks of September 11, the bombings of the U.S.S. Cole, as well as the endless wave of terrorist violence committed by extremists in the Middle East, then sure FOX News is my source...but it's kind of shocking to me that you actually NEED to see some sort of proof for all of this. Have you been living completely out of touch with the world for the past, oh, 30 years? I don't care if you think this group is "jack s***" or not, I honestly do not care what anyone thinks about my group or my opinions. It's called having a backbone and not giving a crap what other people think of you. If all you are going to do is criticize the group, why join?
Sunny, I agree completely with your view on Islam. It is a peaceful religion, and Muslims are generaly peace loving people. However, those who have commited and want to commit terrorist attacks against the United States are very bold in their wrongful proclomation that God wants them to do this. Don't believe me? Turn on any TV channel or read any newspaper the next time a terrorist releases a propoganda tape. They are doing it in the name of their religion, even though their religion does not teach that. I do not hate muslims, I do not hate Arabs, but I do hate acts of terrorism committed in the name of God. Those are the people I do not like. Oh, and P.S., yes, since Christians are still beating slaves to death I think we should change this group's name to "Non-racist Americans FOR racial profiling of Arabs and Christians."
AB Omar: Sunny, i appreciate your point of view. however, i think you have been misinformed. you said that 'muslims are suffering from the worst disease ...." i don't think you're seeing the whole picture. if you look at one of my earlier posts, i posed the following scenario to Daniel and got no response. so here it is again:say a complete stranger came into your house, uninvited, and took everything you had. he/she insulted your very existence upon robbing you IN YOUR OWN HOUSE and slapped around your little sister for no reason, would you sit there and watch them absue everything you have and you are or would you at least try to resist? for one minute, let's forget about our biases as westerners and look at it from a humanistic point of view. Look at the progression of the map of Israel from 1946 to now. What was almost entirely Palestine once has now been reduced to little dots on the map. and none of this land was voluntarily given to Israel by the Palestinian people.
Israel has taken the palestinians homes away from them. when everything one has has been stolen from him/her, he/she has nothing more to lose, so death by means of straping ona bomb is a natural progression in order to retaliate. so you see, while killing other people can never be justified no matter what the reason, scrutinizing the facts can help better explain these actions.
Daniel Marchant: Interestingly enough I've directly responded to your post all along, apparently you just never were able to figure it out. If you think that is the reason why the extremists are doing what they are doing, then you really are out of touch with reality. The extremists themselves do not say "well I'm doing this because people came into my land" they say "Allah be praised, kill the infidel, kill the great satan." Excluding Western bias as you said, that land does rightfully belong to Israel. The Kingdom of Israel once ruled an area of land much larger than what is there for them now...look on any ancient history maps.
AB Omar: Daniel, how many ways do I need to say it so it'll ring a bell in that empty head of yours. Read my post again about your sources of information. The government IS the media. So they give you what's on their agenda, not what's actually happening. Think about this, all the reporters that went to Iraq to cover the war, they stayed with US military, they wore US military apparel, they ate with US troops, they were protected by the US troops and they were transported in US humvies and they reported mostly from US bases. Have you heard ANYTHING from a reporter that stayed with the Iraqi troops, ate with Iraqi troops, was transporterd around by Iraqi military, and reported from Iraqi bases? didn't think so. come back when you have something worthwile to say.
Jessica Warner: C'mon, Dan.....Every time a civilized person is wronged, the immediate, natural reaction is to blow oneself up. Everyone knows this, Dan.What's your problem?
AB Omar: oh and your reply to Sunny's comment, saying that you don't hate arabs or muslims..... if that's so then why did you create this group? i mean look at the first sentence in the intro to this group, "This group is for every American who supports racial profiling against Muslim Arabs. "you really have no clue what you're talking about do you?
Daniel Marchant: LOL, this is really rather comical. Obviously the Republican controlled government (soley controlled by Bush of course, that ultra evil conservative) is secretly behind the incredibly liberal news media controlled almost exclusively by very vocal Democrats. How can you not acknowledge that? Turn on any news channel and you hear "Bush is a failure, Bush got us into a quagmire, impeach Bush." Yeah, government propoganda...o-kay. I like how news reporters being protected by troops and staying with troops is conclusive proof of your position lol. Of course, if the troops would not have protected them, you'd be outraged over that and condemn the military for not regarding innocent life. I can't believe you are still here arguing. Everything that you are saying is making you look worse and worse in the eyes of the intelligent people of this group.
Umm, Omar, look at the very FIRST part of the TITLE of this group...
I will continue to post this all as it unfolds further.
~Tribal~
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